binny
Senior Member
2001 - Blue
Posts: 362
|
Post by binny on Apr 11, 2014 14:58:27 GMT 10
I just put these manual Kriegers in my 2005 VTR1000 after developing a knock in the engine. It had done 53 thou. The front OEM tensioner appears to have been the culprit, on inspection it was notchy (inconsistent tension) compared to the rear one. With the Kriegers in, the engine is running smooth as now, no knocks at all, well worth the effort. Are you able to describe the sound any better? Any when was the sound happening? Idle, under load, constant speed, all of the above? When I hear people say knocking sound I picture the sort of sound doing a big end or crank bearing makes. I wouldn't have thought a timing chain that's lost it's tension would be knocking as such? The reason I ask is that I have had a bit of a sound coming from the engine at low revs around 3k when travelling at a constant speed. If I accelerate it goes away. Its not really a knocking sound it's more like a rubbing or chick chick chick sort of sound. All this CCT talk is making me paranoid. It could just be that I put the stock pipes back on and I can hear other things now lol.
|
|
|
Post by thermanmerman on Apr 11, 2014 17:04:38 GMT 10
The sound I heard was more a chattering/light knocking noise, high in the engine, near the cam covers. This sound was on idle and lower revs when backing off. I have also adjusted the CCT this week and backed them off too far which resulted in that noise again, I just tightened them up until the sound went away. The bike now starts quicker, idles better and runs perfectly. For me it was worth the angst and commitment to do the job properly.
|
|
1wd
Honourable Member
'99 Limited Edition Teal!
Posts: 520
|
Post by 1wd on Apr 12, 2014 6:58:29 GMT 10
Hey Macca, I was concerned that I could bugger the job too. But I researched the web on many sites about changing them. I decided to opt with just taking off the rear cam cover method rather than both covers which would have meant a lot more removal of stuff. Just be methodical and follow the directions, take photos while your going to remind you where hoses etc were if you need to. I was quoted over $1000 bucks to do the job (with new chains etc), it cost me around $100, and worked out perfect. Take your time, be methodical, have your tools and lighting set up, a bike stand helps too. Drink beer after the job. Good luck. Greg I'm gonna show this to the missus. She reccons she can save money(while shopping of course) Hmmmmm what bike bling can I get for $1000?
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Apr 21, 2014 14:44:21 GMT 10
Thanks for the encouragement Greg, I'm waiting until I've nearly emptied my tank and then I'll do a full service and measure valve gaps etc. it will probably mean my bike will be unridable able for a week or two as I work a lot and have very limited free time. I also plan on putting a 43t rear sprocket on at the same time (if it ever arrives, auspost and Dhl managed to lose the packaged the seller doesn't want to replace it!)
Will let you know how it goes and will post some pics if I think they would be helpful for anyone else.
Cheers
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on May 3, 2014 6:51:37 GMT 10
With the Kriegers you get a full set of instructions. I have installed mine without any prior knowledge and only the basic tools needed to do the job. Leave yourself enough time to complete the job and take your time. Read the instructions word for word and double check everything. You hear of people doing this in 2.5 hours but good luck to them I say. If it takes you 5 and you have done it correctly then your still in front. Timing is a massive thing with these engines and if it out can cause a lot of damage, maybe not at idle but where the fun starts can be expensive to fix so take your time. And if you dont feel comfortable maybe someone that lives close to you that has done it can assist. Where are you located?
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on May 4, 2014 20:52:19 GMT 10
I got mine from Mark K yesterday. Shipped to Australia in a week for just on $100 Au Good service hey 2wheelsagain.....
|
|
|
Post by 2wheelsagain on May 5, 2014 6:34:11 GMT 10
I got mine from Mark K yesterday. Shipped to Australia in a week for just on $100 Au Good service hey 2wheelsagain..... No complaints from me mate. Quality all the way. If only the rest of the bike followed!!!
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on May 5, 2014 9:57:42 GMT 10
Thats the major issue out of the way. no more ticking time bomb between your legs.
|
|
bert
Newbie
Posts: 4
|
Post by bert on May 28, 2014 23:23:50 GMT 10
Hey guys, I think my bike may have dropped a CCT tonight when I got home. Pulled into the driveway and a loud ticking / chattering sound started. I shut her down straight away so hopefully didn't do too much damage.
What's the easiest way to check if its the tensioner gone?
Next question... Is there anything stopping me swapping a 03 motor into this 98 bike to get it up and running again?
Cheers, Bert
|
|
|
Post by sjscicluna on May 29, 2014 19:19:51 GMT 10
Not sure and i think no strait swap but someone else who has done it should be able to help soon
\\Stay Upright\\
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on May 29, 2014 20:30:38 GMT 10
Did you hear the noises before this like at high rpm? I have heard people getting lucky and just doing the cct's but this I will not say for sure. As far as the engines they should be a straight swap but I think the later model has a different fuel pick up and sender units so this maybe the only issue but again I'm not 100% sure.
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 16, 2014 16:06:08 GMT 10
Old thread but thought I'd post one last comment about this.
Being far too time poor to do this job myself (plus a bunch of other time consuming stuff like checking valve clearances etc.) I took my bike to Sixty Degrees in Notting Hill to have my Krieger's fitted plus a bunch of other stuff checked while they were in there.
The guy there did a great job (Jeff I think was his name) and knows a bit about Storm's as he's worked on quite a few, including fitting manual CCTs on several other Storms. He did a great job and was super friendly and willing to talk about the bike and other things he noticed when he was working on it.
Sixty Degrees are not cheap but they do appear to do good work and clearly know some of the peculiarities of the Storm - at least so far anyway - I've only ridden the bike about 5kms home since picking it up so hopefully it all stays together :-D
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 18, 2014 19:46:16 GMT 10
Ok so an update to my post above. I warmed the bike up and found it leaking radiator fluid! This didn't happen when I rode it back from the shop but the guys at Sixty Degrees were happy enough for me to ride it straight back to the shop for Jeff to look at it immediately - good service!
It seems like the issue was probably a hose seal that hadn't seated properly after he flushed the radiators and the heating/expansion caused some fluid to leak out, and when it cooled again it sealed correctly. Haven't been able to reproduce it since but Jeff adjusted and re-tightened all hoses connecting to the right radiator and so far, so good. I'll keep a close eye on it.
The bike sounds different with the manual CCTs. For example as I gear down to stop (3->2->1) I can clearly hear a mechanical 'chain movement' sound, which I believe to be the manual CCTs. It sounds like the CCT rubbing against the cam chain itself. This sounds was not apparent when I had the original auto-CCTs in but other than that it sounds no different. I'd read many reports of people saying their bike sounded more rattly after installing manual's but Jeff explained that sound may have been caused by the manual CCTs needing to be ever so slightly tighter.
The original CCTs they took out of the bike were in perfect working order, as were the throttle cables (which I had replaced, believing them to be too stiff, though turns out it just needed adjustment), so I'll sell these as used parts now. PM me if interested!
All in all Jeff confirmed the bike is in excellent mechanical condition - valves are all within tolerance, steering and swingarm bearing are all solid, etc etc, in fact all that needed doing was a slight adjustment to synch the carbs. So, even though there is no written record of my bike's service history it all appears to be in excellent condition. It has 50k's on it but you wouldn't know it - true Japanese quality!
Love the Storm'!
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on Oct 25, 2014 20:25:30 GMT 10
great news mate...now enjoy the pleasure of that grunty Vtwin and ride into the sunset, but be back before dinner!
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 25, 2014 20:57:42 GMT 10
Follow up post - first decent ride I took the storm out since the service and she struggles to hold steady idle speed and even cut out a couple times at the lights! Lifted the tank today to check everything was connected properly and found fuel all over the place and the breather hose (the big one) totally disconnected plus 2 other hoses sliding off their places and without their butterfly clips holding them on! I think the mechanic literally forgot to do them all up.
Furthermore as per my other post the bike makes a horrendous groaning noise on warm starts, which the mechanic says it's the starter clutch but it only started straight after the manual ccts went in and I've since found other owners post on other forums stating the same thing after their manual's went in. Any ideas?
|
|
bowler
True Stormer
No more 1998 Yellow Storm but a 2016 Triumph Tiger 800XCx instead
Posts: 1,383
|
Post by bowler on Oct 26, 2014 7:15:53 GMT 10
Cant help with the groaning noise , Ive personally never heard of that problem before. But is that mechanic really any good , he left you with a leaking radiator that should have been noticed before you picked it up , same with the slight rattly tensioners , and leaves the fuel hoses undone - you said he was costly , might be time to look for someone else for a second opinion on the noise issue.
Graham
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 26, 2014 8:27:18 GMT 10
I've done some more reading on firestorm forums and it seems that the warm start groaning noise can be caused by the CCTs being too tight. Does this sound plausible to you guys and Is it possible to adjust them in place with the engine hot without removing the tank and everything? A number of other storm/shawk owners have posted exactly the same problem after having CCTs fitted.
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on Oct 26, 2014 12:33:43 GMT 10
I've done some more reading on firestorm forums and it seems that the warm start groaning noise can be caused by the CCTs being too tight. Does this sound plausible to you guys and Is it possible to adjust them in place with the engine hot without removing the tank and everything? A number of other storm/shawk owners have posted exactly the same problem after having CCTs fitted. Mate it dies sound like they are too tight but in saying that what does it sound like when it warms up because if they are too tight at idle I would think it would get worse once warmed up as things expand
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 26, 2014 13:14:41 GMT 10
Thanks vrtstormer,
First things first - I need to stop the fuel leak. After reconnecting the crank case breather hose and pushing the fuel vacuum hoses on properly with their spring clips, I thought I'd stopped the fuel leak, but just checked the bike and it's still leaking fuel from somewhere up near the fuel tube that goes from the tank to the rock assembly - it's really hard to tell without removing the fuel tank entirely and I've not done that before. Having an 01' model means my bike doesn't have a fuel tap to turn on/off and the tank is nearly full of fuel, so not sure how to approach removing it at all right now.
Even with the original auto CCTs my bike has always 'ticked' when running, and the manual CCTs only made this ticking sound a bit more audible. However, I did notice on the day I picked my bike up after the CCTs went in that when the bike was warm and I was slowing down from 3->2->1 I could hear a mechanical noise as I did so. I now believe this is the tight CCTs being audible at low speed when the engine's hot. It's not as noticeable when the engine is cold.
Not sure where to go from here but I'll be calling Sixty Degrees tomorrow to let them know I'll be bringing the bike back in for them to sort out the issues! Still, the fuel leak is a real concern to me and I want to get outside right now and try to fix it but am having trouble finding details of how to do this without a fuel tap - my Haynes manual makes no mention of 01'+ models without the fuel tap so it's kind of useless at this point. Could I simply put a hose clamp on the fuel line and remove it from the rock assembly end (which is bolted to the frame)?
|
|
|
Post by colinlinz on Oct 26, 2014 15:35:39 GMT 10
It will be looser when warm. The length of the chain will expand in a more meaningful way than sprocket diameter. Better too loose than too tight. Nothing destroys a chain faster than over tension.
Any problems following a repairers work are always better handled if they are the first port of call. See what they offer to do, and or find, then move on from there.
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 26, 2014 17:20:50 GMT 10
Thanks for the input Colin. Have you ever heard of this happening after manual ccts were installed? I found a few threads where others had the same problem and the cause was overtight ccts?
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 26, 2014 17:24:38 GMT 10
Thanks for the input Colin. Have you ever heard of this happening after manual ccts were installed? I found a few threads where others had the same problem and the cause was overtight ccts? I should also add that I took it back to the mechanic when it was hot and he said it was the starter clutch, but it's just too much of a coincidence for my liking that this problem would suddenly start straight after they went in!
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 27, 2014 16:08:26 GMT 10
Thanks for the input Colin. Have you ever heard of this happening after manual ccts were installed? I found a few threads where others had the same problem and the cause was overtight ccts? I should also add that I took it back to the mechanic when it was hot and he said it was the starter clutch, but it's just too much of a coincidence for my liking that this problem would suddenly start straight after they went in! Okay so Luke, the owner of Sixty Degrees, will be personally working on my bike to rectify any and all issues I've experienced. I am unhappy with the results to date but happy that he is willing to do what it takes to try and restore my confidence in them and give me the service that I paid for. I'll post another update in a couple weeks with the results!
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Oct 27, 2014 16:09:04 GMT 10
Thanks for the input Colin. Have you ever heard of this happening after manual ccts were installed? I found a few threads where others had the same problem and the cause was overtight ccts? I should also add that I took it back to the mechanic when it was hot and he said it was the starter clutch, but it's just too much of a coincidence for my liking that this problem would suddenly start straight after they went in! Okay so Luke, the owner of Sixty Degrees, will be personally working on my bike to rectify any and all issues I've experienced. I am unhappy with the results to date but happy that he is willing to do what it takes to try and restore my confidence in them and give me the service that I paid for. I'll post another update in a couple weeks with the results!
|
|
|
Post by colinlinz on Oct 28, 2014 17:37:42 GMT 10
That's a good outcome; hopefully they sort it out satisfactorily.
People stuffing up the tension adjustment process was why they went to automatic tensioners. In most cases they improve the chain life. I'm pretty confident in the standard ones, but I also understand that some people feel more confident with the manual adjusters.
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on Oct 29, 2014 5:16:42 GMT 10
I should also add that I took it back to the mechanic when it was hot and he said it was the starter clutch, but it's just too much of a coincidence for my liking that this problem would suddenly start straight after they went in! Okay so Luke, the owner of Sixty Degrees, will be personally working on my bike to rectify any and all issues I've experienced. I am unhappy with the results to date but happy that he is willing to do what it takes to try and restore my confidence in them and give me the service that I paid for. I'll post another update in a couple weeks with the results! Let's hope they sort it for you Macca...let us know how it goes
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Nov 1, 2014 9:29:58 GMT 10
Update. Sixty Degrees came to the table and addressed my concerns. The owner went over the entire bike again himself, loosened the CCTs less than 1/4 out which fixed the utterly horrendous groaning sound on hot starts apparently (I pick the bike up next week so will see for myself), fixed the leak and generally assures me that everything is perfect now after a couple of test rides. So I'm pleased with their response from a customer service perspective right now. Fingers crossed...
|
|
|
Post by colinlinz on Nov 1, 2014 18:03:20 GMT 10
Everyone stuffs up a little from time to time. What makes the difference is how they respond after the stuff up.
|
|
vtrstormer
Admin
I feel the need, the need for a few twisties and a latte!
Posts: 1,663
|
Post by vtrstormer on Nov 4, 2014 19:55:53 GMT 10
Never happy to have it happen but they sound like pretty good guys and have responded well.
|
|
macca
Senior Member
2001 - Lapis Blue Metallic
Posts: 322
|
Post by macca on Nov 5, 2014 15:56:10 GMT 10
Just collected the bike early this morning. Rode it home 10mins so haven't had a chance to really see what's going on, but everything seemed OK. Still haven't had a chance to run it hot and see if the hot start noise is still there though they assure me it's not.
The engine noise is definitely a bit different since they slightly loosened one of the CCTs. I think I can now hear the different engine noise that most Stormer's say they hear after fitting them. I did see some shine on the back of the engine crankcase and suspect the fuel leak hasn't been fully addressed but I'll reserve judgement until I've had more time to look at it. It's possible that the leak was always there an only noticed or exacerbated by them taking the tank off and not re-fitting the hoses properly. They said they did re-fit all the hoses so we'll see what that means and what they've actually done later when I get a chance to look at it.
At the very least I'm satisfied that they've reviewed all the work they performed on the bike and attempted to restore my confidence in the business. So no complaints about that.
|
|