spitfire
Honourable Member
2004 - Blue
Posts: 993
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Post by spitfire on Oct 5, 2011 22:38:38 GMT 10
hey all,
Ive had a glitch with my 4wd system in my pajero
For those that dont know them, they have 3 4wd settings
1.all wheel drive
2. 4 high (diff lock)
3. 4 low (diff lock)
Nthe glitch I had was when engaging in all wheel drive (on rough or dirt surfaces) the 4 green lights (representing the wheels) flash at me, then they would all go out, then the centre orange light would start flashing
So I did some research on a pajero forum so I was prepared for anything
So Mitsubishi said no faults were found so the foreman said it is usually the free wheeling hub silenoid that is the problem & I said are you sure what about the sensers in the tranfer case or 1 of the vacuum lines associated with the system & he said they checked the vacuum & said it was fine there were no leaks
You would think if it was the Free Wheel hub Silenoid (being a electrical componant) it would throw a fault
So they replaced the silenoid $ 425 + 2x $88 diognostics & it is still doing it
With no faults coming up they just guess
So looking at the Pajero 4wd forum they said try the switches as they can get dirt in them & get an auto sparky to test each switch to see if 1 is faulty (I will note Mitsu wont test the switches as they claim there is no way of testing them) CRAP CRAP CRAP & they will charge $1000+ to fit all new 5 switches
An auto sparky can check
So the sparky checked all swicthes & they were all good 2 were a little loose so they fixed them up
Then when I took it for a drive it still happened so straight back to the sparky & he asked if Mitsu checked the Vacuum lines & I told them that they said it couldnt be the vacuum as there are no leaks & he said its not leaks you have to worry about, they could be restricted somewhere in the lines as they are a vacuum actuated electric system
So any obstrution in the system can cause it to not register properly & it makes alot of sense as (now ill see if I can explain it)
When you put it into AWD the top green lights flash a couple of times then stay on (you do this while driving as it engages whilst you are driving. same with 4H but not 4L) So while I was accelarating I put it into AWD, the lights flashed several times not a couple like they should & then the orange light flashed at me.
I then stopped turned her off & back on again & then accelerated again & engaged AWD, I then backed off then accelerating again they stayed on
Now I did the same to disengage & the same thing happened, not being a Mechanic or techy in any field to do with modern cars. To me that seems like its not activating while accelerating until I back off & hit the throttle again shows signs of not getting proper Vacuum
So in it goes again tomorrow to the sparky to get the Vacuum checked & if it is the vacuum, Im going to Mitsu & tell them that they need to learn more instead of guessing & people wasting money, they dont care if its too hard they say oh well
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shayne
Omnipresent
1998 Blueprint
Posts: 8,639
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Post by shayne on Oct 6, 2011 21:59:47 GMT 10
I am a 4wd nut, but the Paj is not a common vehicle in the mags I read, so I know nothing about it.
You may know this already but you haven't mentioned it. Lights on the dash not working does not necessarily mean it isn't engaging and locking the hubs. I am guessing you have auto hubs. Maybe it is a sensor problem, rather than an activation problem. Do you know if it is engaging or not?
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spitfire
Honourable Member
2004 - Blue
Posts: 993
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Post by spitfire on Oct 7, 2011 0:18:10 GMT 10
I am a 4wd nut, but the Paj is not a common vehicle in the mags I read, so I know nothing about it. You may know this already but you haven't mentioned it. Lights on the dash not working does not necessarily mean it isn't engaging and locking the hubs. I am guessing you have auto hubs. Maybe it is a sensor problem, rather than an activation problem. Do you know if it is engaging or not? Yes auto hubs Auto Sparky checked all 5 sensors & they are all good So got it back today & all the Vacuum lines are fine, however there were 3 code errors 25,33 &41 they reset them & so far so good What they couldnt tell me (as the guy that tested it was out on a job & they couldnt find the report at the time I went to pick it up) was what the codes meant So we will wait & see As far as activating yes it does engage but as soon as the centre light flashes you definately know you havnt got 4WD it just reverts back to 2WD |
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alsvtr
Rookie
1997 - Yellow
Posts: 18
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Post by alsvtr on Oct 7, 2011 1:03:25 GMT 10
I have a Jeep xj which has auto locking hubs and a transfer case you can engage whilst on the move (except for 4L) similar to yours. I worked out the smoothest way for changing drive mode in my rig that works for me every time is to get to about 30-50kph then back off the accelerator and select the drive i want whilst coasting, then give it a bit of acceleration to get some drive to the front, back off once more for a second and then when i resume accelerating i feel the transfer case engage and the 4wd light comes on. It's not a pain when you get used to it and before i did this it used to go into either the wrong drive mode or none at all! it sure did not like the transfer lever touched with the accelerator depressed even gently.
My friends XJ is the same, so i think it's normal. Then again it could just be a Jeep thing...
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shayne
Omnipresent
1998 Blueprint
Posts: 8,639
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Post by shayne on Oct 8, 2011 20:31:59 GMT 10
Auto hubs cause a lot of problems, lots of people chuck them and go to manuals when they can.
My old truck is like this. Manual hubs and transfer. The only electronic part is the dash light that shows it is in 4wd. Nice and simple, just like its owner.
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blue
Senior Member
2006 - Red
Posts: 335
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Post by blue on Oct 21, 2011 0:20:25 GMT 10
Just as a matter of interest, the Pajero doesn't have auto hubs per se, it has a vacuum actuated half shaft 'clutch' in the front axle assembly... The hubs themselves are permanently engaged and the system relies on a syncronising system within the transfer case to allow the transition from 2WD to AWD on the fly...
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shayne
Omnipresent
1998 Blueprint
Posts: 8,639
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Post by shayne on Oct 21, 2011 15:51:39 GMT 10
Auto hubs sound better than that set up!!!!  |
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spitfire
Honourable Member
2004 - Blue
Posts: 993
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Post by spitfire on Oct 21, 2011 20:03:37 GMT 10
Just as a matter of interest, the Pajero doesn't have auto hubs per se, it has a vacuum actuated half shaft 'clutch' in the front axle assembly... The hubs themselves are permanently engaged and the system relies on a syncronising system within the transfer case to allow the transition from 2WD to AWD on the fly... You explain how the system works exactly & simply I unfortuneatly have problems with how to describe the system So thank you |
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spitfire
Honourable Member
2004 - Blue
Posts: 993
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Post by spitfire on Oct 21, 2011 20:09:00 GMT 10
Auto hubs sound better than that set up!!!! Yes Shayne but if you have owned 1 you would know how good a system it is when it works properly Our old Paja never had a problem & you would not believe what It could do off road & in the sand absolutely awesome The system hasnt changed since its introduction in the 90's & a mechanic I was talking to today who also owns a Paja said that nissan & toyota are only just now introducing a similar system to there vehicles |
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Post by colinlinz on Oct 22, 2011 8:10:52 GMT 10
A work colleague of mine, who teaches automotive, and competes and judges in 4WD competitions might have some answers for you. He is pretty switched on with 4WD technology. I'll ask him next week when I see him.
Just one thing to remember. The diagnostic scanners are very good, but they don't identify faulty components, just the circuit. Further to this, most don't diagnose actuators, just sensor circuits. Senors return a value to the ECU. The ECU's programming knows what range of values it should see at any time. If the returning value is outside the value that the ECU expects it will log a fault code for that circuit. Actuators are controlled by the ECU. When the programming dictates, the ECU will output a signal to the actuator. Because there is no return side to an actuator, the ECU has no idea if it worked or not. Other sensors may be effected by the actuator not working, but they will just send a signal back to the ECU and the ECU will log it as sensor fault.
In general, sensors are components that receive a voltage signal from the ECU. This voltage will be modified circuitry in the sensor, before returning to the ECU. A simple example is a temperature sensor. It has a thermistor inside it. As the thermistor warms up its resistance changes. This changes the voltage signal that the ECU receives back. Software in the ECU then converts the voltage signal in a temperature reading.
Actuators on the other hand are usually just something the ECU turns on. They can be injectors, idle air control valves, or solenoids.
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spitfire
Honourable Member
2004 - Blue
Posts: 993
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Post by spitfire on Oct 22, 2011 8:39:49 GMT 10
A work colleague of mine, who teaches automotive, and competes and judges in 4WD competitions might have some answers for you. He is pretty switched on with 4WD technology. I'll ask him next week when I see him. Just one thing to remember. The diagnostic scanners are very good, but they don't identify faulty components, just the circuit. Further to this, most don't diagnose actuators, just sensor circuits. Senors return a value to the ECU. The ECU's programming knows what range of values it should see at any time. If the returning value is outside the value that the ECU expects it will log a fault code for that circuit. Actuators are controlled by the ECU. When the programming dictates, the ECU will output a signal to the actuator. Because there is no return side to an actuator, the ECU has no idea if it worked or not. Other sensors may be effected by the actuator not working, but they will just send a signal back to the ECU and the ECU will log it as sensor fault. In general, sensors are components that receive a voltage signal from the ECU. This voltage will be modified circuitry in the sensor, before returning to the ECU. A simple example is a temperature sensor. It has a thermistor inside it. As the thermistor warms up its resistance changes. This changes the voltage signal that the ECU receives back. Software in the ECU then converts the voltage signal in a temperature reading. Actuators on the other hand are usually just something the ECU turns on. They can be injectors, idle air control valves, or solenoids. Update it through a code for the rear shaft speed sensor It did this at Mitsy as well & they said that was a PHANTOM code (crap,crap,crap) Same code came up for auto sparky twice they checked it & it was working fine, now heres the thing when they tested it, it was getting 150ohms & it should of been getting 2ohms so after taking the centre consol out to get to the ECU, they earthed it They said there was an earthing issue I havnt used it properly yet as it is in getting the auto, transfer & diffs serviced & when the mechanic pulled the pan off the auto he noticed it was damaged & he had to do some panelbeating & since putting the pan back on it has a small leak So he is keeping it till monday to check to see if once the gasket goo sets itn stops leaking |
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Post by colinlinz on Oct 22, 2011 9:52:59 GMT 10
Hopefully it all goes well for you. Earthing problems can be an issue. The ECU's normally switch everything via negative switching.
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shayne
Omnipresent
1998 Blueprint
Posts: 8,639
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Post by shayne on Oct 24, 2011 9:10:59 GMT 10
There is no doubt that these systems work well, just look at the new Discovery and 200 Cruiser. Technically very good.
But they do not always work. Due to their complication, when the vehicle gets older thses components start to require maintenance. If they do not get the maintenance, and replacement parts they need eventually they will malfunction. Just like brakes and radiators, and everything else.
So I prefer not to have them. When I am a long way from anywhere, my manual transfer and hubs are my preferred option. It takes a hell of a lot to have a fault with a manual system.
These auto systems are fantastic, and work very well (most of them, not all of course) but just not for people like me.
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